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ATHEISM

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joiedelivre

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Subject: ATHEISM ...
Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 13:04
Accepting there are no gods ensures that individuals take personal responsibility for living a good, productive, altruistic and caring life hopefully helping others in what ever way they can...in the hope of leaving the world a better place. Human intelligence will divine that doing otherwise is not a good thing to do...which means one doesn't need religious books or teachings to tell us so...

And yet many fear a non belief in gods...why is that?
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Rose60

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 13:26
Perhaps its because they dont think human beings can survive without a god to show the way ..I think if religions kept to what they are suppose to do , and not cause some of the havoc it has , there might be much less of us atheists today .
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Rosema

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 13:27
Mortality.
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Celtwitch
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Darkknight

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 14:23
Quoting joiedelivre (26/06/2011 @ 13:04:46):
Accepting there are no gods ensures that individuals take personal responsibility for living a good, productive, altruistic and caring life hopefully helping others in what ever way they can...in the hope of leaving the world a better place. Human intelligence will divine that doing otherwise is not a good thing to do...which means one doesn't need religious books or teachings to tell us so...

And yet many fear a non belief in gods...why is that?


Some have suggested that it is hard wired in us from a primitive time (why we believe in God). It wasn't that long ago that atheism was unknown.... or had a different meaning (In early ancient Greek, the adjective atheos meant "godless". Which meant something totally different then to what it does today). We can see how things have changed from a few years ago. Now there is an estimated 15% of people in the world that doesn't believe in God. Some have suggest that it is higher, but won't report it because of fear of retaliation.

Why is this? Better research, better understanding and more awareness. People like Dawkins have exposed the flaws in such teaching. Give it a few more hundred years (or even less) and we will look back at these times as our primitive period. Man doesn’t need gods, just better understanding.

Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Unknown: “Don't pray in my school, and I won't think in your church”

Carl Sagan “You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.”

H. L. Mencken “We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart”

Some of my favourite quotes.
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Lepidodendron

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 14:50
Quoting joiedelivre (26/06/2011 @ 13:04:46):

And yet many fear a non belief in gods...why is that?


With the exception of Buddhists, people of faith believe that moral law comes from God. This being the case, they probably fear that without such a belief we'll fall into a state of moral anarchy.

I don't think there's a valid basis for such a fear. In addition to our reason, there's also strong scientific evidence that the basics of morality are hard-wired. Indeed, it's difficult to see how the earliest humans (thousands of years before the development of today's major religions) could have survived without an understanding of the need for cooperation, caring for vulnerable members of the community and so on. Archaeological evidence shows evidence of such morality. Later religions built on these basic ideas, fine-tuned them and attributed them to whichever God they worshipped to give them more clout.
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a pie for ever

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 15:37
Someone recently described me as a lapsed atheist and that's true. After years of professing non belief, I changed my mind
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special K

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 17:08
pie for ever, I like that description - lovely!
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peter2007

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 17:09
Quoting joiedelivre (26/06/2011 @ 13:04:46):

And yet many fear a non belief in gods...why is that?


If your fundamental ideas about the universe about you are not based on reasoning, logic or evidence, I guess that might make you feel quite threatened when they are challenged by... reasoning, logic and evidence?
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Lila1410

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 17:58
We (many of us) were tribal and territorial for most of our history. Gods were tribal gods, if you worshipped the same gods you belonged and if you didn't you didn't.

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Darkknight

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 18:01
Quoting Lila1410 (26/06/2011 @ 17:58:50):
We (many of us) were tribal and territorial for most of our history. Gods were tribal gods, if you worshipped the same gods you belonged and if you didn't you didn't.



Exactly. It all stems to wanting to belong to something. We are tribal, thus join something that is similar to us in nature; not necessarily what the inhabits of that tribe preach... but the warmth their people give off.
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Lila1410

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 18:10
I can understand why they fear or dislike those who don't share their beliefs.
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dd00

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 18:21
ATHEISM ...

Such a sad word, so lacking in soul.

What if we believe in something other than the Gods with a capital G on offer at any of the organised religions?

What if we have godliness within, believe in angels, have Faith and Religion?

... are we welcome here?
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Darkknight

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 18:35
Quoting dd00 (26/06/2011 @ 18:21:48):
ATHEISM ...

Such a sad word, so lacking in soul.


It is only a word, a word only reflects its meaning... it doesn’t give off a bad, good, dark or light vib... if the reader should see that then that is down to his psychological disturbances and a recommendation of a good psychiatrist would be in order. A word reflects the meaning it was given, and nothing else.

Quote:
What if we believe in something other than the Gods with a capital G on offer at any of the organised religions?

What if we have godliness within, believe in angels, have Faith and Religion?

... are we welcome here?


Why wouldn’t you be welcome? Aren’t you over egging the pudding here? Being a bit of a drama queen? It is a debate, not a vocation.
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Jack7

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 18:59
Quoting joiedelivre (26/06/2011 @ 13:04:46):
Accepting there are no gods ensures that individuals take personal responsibility for living a good, productive, altruistic and caring life hopefully helping others in what ever way they can...in the hope of leaving the world a better place.

I would take issue with this statement. From my viewpoint 99% of people that are atheists have not the inclination or intellect to have such high ideals. How do I know. I was a Jehovah‘s witness for one year and I spoke to thousands of ordinary people. I am not religious now and know that there is not an all loving caring entity in an elsewhere place. I removed my rose tinted spectacles a long time ago. You have a far higher opinion of humanity than I do. Try knocking on a few thousand doors and see if you think the same way.
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gloucester

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 19:06
Interesting - as a possible atheist now ("not religious" = atheist?) would you put yourself in the 99% or the 1%?

"I was a Jehovah‘s witness for one year... " - I don't know what to make of that statement! Honestly it sounds like it was "flavour of the month" with you for a while until it was over and you quit. And dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses on the doorstep doesn't give you an insight into the personality of the householder - at least not in my case.
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Jack7

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 19:33
Reply to gloucester

If you cannot understand what I said or doubt my motives then I find you interesting. What group would you be in? The 99% or the 1%. Please explain why and give evidence for. Your profile does suggest one group …smile.
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Jack7

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 19:40
And gloucester it was not only on the doorstep. Sometimes it was inside for up to two to four hours. Why not give it a try. You would not last a day. it’s a different world out there. As Darwin said …under the smiling face of nature it’s a dog eat dog world.
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gloucester

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 19:47
Quoting Jack7 (26/06/2011 @ 19:33:56):
Reply to gloucester

If you cannot understand what I said or doubt my motives then I find you interesting. What group would you be in? The 99% or the 1%. Please explain why and give evidence for. Your profile does suggest one group …smile.


Since you've not said I don't see why I should - but of course I'm in "your" 1% which probably relates to my 80% give or take a wide margin since it's difficult to quantify...
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gloucester

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Posted At: 26 Jun 2011 at 19:47
Quoting Jack7 (26/06/2011 @ 19:40:57):
And gloucester it was not only on the doorstep. Sometimes it was inside for up to two to four hours. Why not give it a try. You would not last a day. it’s a different world out there. As Darwin said …under the smiling face of nature it’s a dog eat dog world.


Sometimes - but then don't last one MINUTE on my doorstep thank you.
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